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The Planetary Society Weblog
Chat Log
12:05 ZeroOne : Good 3
Generations of Mars rovers image:
12:05 Funkopolis : Thanks for that link - I was curious about relative sizes
12:06 Funkopolis : Or I could have waited for two seconds for the next slide...
12:06 djellison : :)
12:07 ugordan : whoa!
12:07 ZeroOne : But, it's fun to get the Pathfinder era grandmother imaged
12:07 Funkopolis : Dang, you could fit a passenger in there
12:07 Jakel : bet msl gets better milage too ^_^
12:07 djellison : I'm sure I saw a picture somewhere with the MSL backshell over
a Mini
12:07 ustreamer-6621 : Question what is the latest news on Mars methane?
12:07 dragonsyoung : lol
12:07 AdrianusV : "Question" in caps?
12:08 ugordan : The profile shot looks like a steam machine
12:08 djellison : That's a good reminded - Those who have questions, get them
in EARLY so you don't end up dissapointed. Start them with QUESTION:
12:08 ZeroOne : Weapons!
12:08 AdrianusV : wow!
12:08 ustreamer-15371 : QUESTION: What's that unsightly cylindrical thing on
the boot?
12:09 djellison : 15371 - that's already been mentioned - it's the power supply
12:09 ZeroOne : For self-defense use only.
12:09 nick601 : Earth declares war on Martian rocks
12:09 Sili-2662 : Oh - sorry - musta been while I was getting food
12:09 AdrianusV : :)
12:10 ugordan : how much is the thing supposed to weigh?
12:10 ZeroOne : Not labeled: the kung-fu grip
12:10 djellison : 600 odd kg
12:10 Funkopolis : It looks like an iron lung for a midget, on wheels. I'm just
saying.
12:10 dragonsyoung : sounds dirty
12:11 Timothy_Reed : QUESTION: Will the RTG allow functional operations during
winter? What's the anticipated lifetime of the RTG?
12:12 nick601 : the Voyager RTGs are still supplying juice
12:12 Timothy_Reed : nick> Yes, but not at levels that allow full functionality.
12:13 nick601 : of course :)
12:13 ugordan : then again, Voyagers are 30-ish years past launch
12:13 Sili-2662 : QUESTION (for later, I s'pose): I read up on RTGs the other
day, and it said that they were in short supply. Why is that? I mean we must
have tonnes of Plutonium lying around in old bombs and what-not.
12:13 Jakel : it all depends on the size/number of the rtgs
12:13 ugordan : 2662, that's not the same kind of plutonium
12:13 nick601 : It's plutoniun-235 isn't it?
12:14 ugordan : the Pu-238
12:14 nick601 : ah, ok
12:14 ugordan : is RTG plutionium, IIRC
12:14 ugordan : the bomb material is 239
12:14 ZeroOne : ChemCam: attack telemarketer!
12:14 nick601 : apparently NASA are trying to obtain 10kg from the Russians.
after that there really isn't much left
12:15 Funkopolis : The telemarketer may have had a question... QUESTION: Do you
want to save on your long distance?
12:15 Funkopolis : He just submitted it wrong
12:15 djellison : 238 has an 87.7 year half life
12:15 Sili-2662 : thanks - how annoying
12:16 AdrianusV : QUESTION: The power supply at the back is small. Is it using
new types of solar panels?
12:16 djellison : It's an RTG Adrianus - like Voyager
12:16 ugordan : the bigger factor in power drop is IIRC semiconductor thermocouple
degradation
12:16 djellison : It doesn't use sunlight.
12:16 AdrianusV : OK, thanx
12:16 nick601 : it uses the heat from radioactive decay to generate power adrianus
:)
12:16 Funkopolis : So, no winter shutdowns?
12:16 djellison : Meaning we don't have to spend winters camping out or waiting
for lucky gusts of winds.
12:17 ugordan : it's not a lot of power still
12:17 nick601 : depends on the mechanical robustness of the instruments I guess
12:17 Funkopolis : Sweet
12:17 djellison : There will be some degredation over time, but it should be
much more predictable.
12:17 Timothy_Reed : That's the question ... winter is colder so MSL will need
more power for internal heating. Hence, my questions earlier.
12:17 ugordan : there'll probably be other mechanical failures before the RTG
juice runs out
12:17 Funkopolis : Nuclear lasers on Mars! It's about time.
12:17 ugordan : RTGs dump out a lot of heat themselves
12:17 ugordan : most of the energy is heat in fact
12:18 ugordan : only some 10-ish % is converted to electricity
12:18 Funkopolis : Would that interfere w/ readings, or is that calibrated for?
12:18 Jakel : funk that's probably why its sticking up in the air on the back
end
12:18 Funkopolis : Good point. Or maybe for balance.
12:19 ugordan : they're detectably radioactive, but not really much
12:19 Funkopolis : To conteract the midget who is clearly riding inside.
12:19 djellison : Exactly. Same reason our noses are not on our butt cheeks.
12:19 Jakel : heh
12:19 djellison : I should probably kick myself out for saying that
12:19 nick601 : that's just a fluke of evolution ;)
12:19 Funkopolis : No, you didn't swear or anything.
12:20 ugordan : *fingers crossed*
12:20 nick601 : great Heath-Robinson landing mechanism
12:21 MirCat : Danger Danger will ummm Heath-Robinson :)
12:21 Funkopolis : That's ... wacky. Profoundly.
12:21 ugordan : A.C.M.E. Sky Crane, one (1) piece
12:21 Funkopolis : It'd be interesting to see the tests
12:22 Sili-2662 : QUESTION(s): Might the skycrane contaminate the environment
if it lands too close? Isn't it an awful big waste of mass?
12:22 Funkopolis : Could become a useful technique to deploy little automated
rescue rovers on earth, for instance.
12:22 ZeroOne : It's like the lander part was for MER, but it moves away.
12:22 ugordan : what's wrong with helicopters?
12:22 MirCat : Or alien robot zobie tanks
12:23 Timothy_Reed : Lack of atmosphere, although descent-deployable baloons
have been considered for some missions.
12:23 MirCat : ugordon, kinda like a rotor system. like how helicopters that
loss power dont crash taht hard?
12:24 ugordan : was replying to funkopolis on rescues on earth, not mars
12:24 Funkopolis : ugordan - good point.
12:24 nick601 : here's a link describing the RTG technology to be used on the
MSL
12:25 Jakel : we can't even predict the weather on earth and we want to guess
for another planet?
12:25 ugordan : why are winds a constraint?
12:25 AdrianusV : dust storms?
12:26 djellison : Cross winds will play havock during skycrane
12:26 Manu75 : QUESTION: what about winds exceeding 40 m/s when the rover is
sleeping?
12:26 ugordan : ahhh, so it's a landing constraint
12:26 djellison : What about them Manu?
12:26 Funkopolis : Where are the phone numbers where we can start voting sites
off?
12:27 ZeroOne : Wind
constraint MSL:
12:27 Manu75 : I mean why is it important not to have them, specifically when
asleep?
12:27 Funkopolis : I say, go for the one that's a giant check mark.
12:27 djellison : I'd vote for Gale.
12:27 ZeroOne : Better
wind link, PDF:
12:27 AdrianusV : thanx for the link Nick
12:27 nick601 : RTG power is guaranteed for 1 martian year (although the RTGs
themselves have a 14 year nominal lifespan apparently)
12:27 nick601 : welcome :)
12:28 MeteorWayne : 40 meters per second is 89 miles per hour. I suspect at that
point it would be in danger of getting flipped over.
12:28 ZeroOne : 89 mph about like 9 mph Earth
12:28 ugordan : the martian air is incredibly rare
12:29 djellison : Remember, because the atmosphere is so thin, the wind fels
much much less powerfull
12:29 MeteorWayne : It might be enogh to damage some instruments.
12:29 AdrianusV : even a dust devil?
12:29 djellison : You would barely feel a DD on mars
12:30 ZeroOne : UNless you're a 1-micron dust particle.
12:30 djellison : bingo
12:30 AdrianusV : :)
12:30 ugordan : How far from Oppy would the center of ellipse be?
12:30 djellison : About 100km
12:30 djellison : Oppy is 100k north
12:30 ugordan : imagine meeting up the two rovers
12:30 nick601 : yes, the surface atmospheric pressure is about 1% of that on
Earth
12:30 ugordan : photo-op!
12:30 nick601 : it really is very very thin
12:31 djellison : LOL
12:31 djellison : That's the one thing I wish they could do with the MER MI that
they can't.... take self portraits.
12:32 Manu75 : "Dr Opportunity, I presume?"
12:32 Jakel : QUESTION how fast will the MSL be able to drive when its going
from place to place?
12:32 ZeroOne : Uzboi. I just like saying Uzboi.
12:33 Funkopolis : Agreed
12:33 ZeroOne : Wikipedia: It is named after a dry river valley in Russia
12:33 AdrianusV : Holden is my candidate :)
12:34 Funkopolis : I think, by the time we've mapped the whole solar system,
every person that has ever lived will have a crater named after them.
12:34 Jakel : hopefully Jakel crater will be a cool one at least ^_^
12:34 MeteorWayne : I already have a comet with my name... :)
12:34 Funkopolis : Sure, wherever it is.
12:35 ZeroOne : I named my metoer Wayne!
12:35 Jakel : wayne, lucky
12:35 djellison : I'd like a crater just NW of the Columbai Hills please.
12:35 nick601 : are these MRO images?
12:35 Funkopolis : I'll take the one on Titan they find life in.
12:35 djellison : These are elevation maps
12:35 nick601 : but based on MRO data?
12:36 nick601 : i'm not up to speed on what's currently orbiting mars :)
12:36 Jakel : QUESTION are any of these candidate sights close enough to each
other for the MSL to land in one and then rove to another later?
12:36 Manu75 : QUESTION: how long is MSL planned for and how far will it drive
in that time?
12:37 MeteorWayne : Mars year after Mars year after Mars year....sounds great!!
12:37 Sili-2233 : QUESTION: How *far* can the MSL drive?
12:38 Funkopolis : Looking at the coordinates, Miyamoto and Southern Meridian
are the closest... Not sure how far 3 degrees of Martian longitude is, though.
12:38 ZeroOne : Mawrth: right out; if Exomars breaks into 4 pieces it can land
in all the ellipses!
12:39 Jakel : QUESTION how does Exomars compare to MSL or other rover missions?
12:39 Sili-2233 : And then he'll hopefully have learned *how* to do a good presentation
...
12:39 AdrianusV : QUESTION: Who is taking the ultimate decision about the location?
12:39 ZeroOne : Internet poll. Just kidding.
12:39 djellison : Text-message voting ;)
12:39 Funkopolis : Cage match! Cage match!
12:39 ZeroOne : 50-cents a vote...
12:40 djellison : I'll get a T-Shirt "VOTE GALE"
12:40 Funkopolis : Mars map... darts...
12:40 ugordan : Admit it, you just want to see the happy face up close, Doug
12:40 djellison : :D Yp
12:40 Manu75 : QUESTION: is there a limit to the height of hills it could climb?
12:40 djellison : Well - the canoyon. And I did some DEM anims for Jim of it
;)
12:41 MeteorWayne : BTW, tell emily thanx for the ppt presentation. A great reference
for the future.
12:42 Funkopolis : So, they pick their landing sites like they pick their co-op
students?
12:43 Sili-2233 : Yeah - really nice to have big pictures
12:43 ZeroOne : Martian
Chronicles Link, for the record:
12:43 djellison : Lots of questions in the Queue alread - but if ou have more
- speak now!
12:43 Sili-2233 : Thanks for the reference to Pu-238 - WP
explains nicely
12:44 ugordan : w00t, 20 years
12:44 nick601 : wow
12:44 djellison : Can you imagine the decision for extensions "FOUR MORE
YEARS"
12:44 nick601 : hehe
12:44 ugordan : Sili, you gotta love the red glow of heated Pu-238
12:44 MeteorWayne : 20 Years!!! KEWL!!!!
12:44 Sili-2233 : Indeed!
12:45 Sili-2233 : And it's *self* heated
12:45 ugordan : yep
12:45 ugordan : radioactivity ftw!
12:45 Funkopolis : Bah, nothing's prettier than cobalt
12:45 Funkopolis : ideally in water
12:45 AdrianusV : QUESTION: is the MSL part of the Mars Scout Program?
12:46 ZeroOne : not a scout. scouts are cheap
12:46 ugordan : relatively cheap that is
12:46 djellison : Scouts are <$500m . The first was Phoenix, the second will
be MAVEN
12:46 rickqualls : QUESTION what is the current Mars methane story? Will MSL
be able to detect methane?
12:46 KAR : QUESTION: Any peep from Pheonix contacts? JPL gave a press release
about another delievery to WCL but did not give much detail
12:47 Funkopolis : QUESTION: If/when it can no longer drive (due to power or
whatever), can it sit somewhere and do Phoenix-like science 'till the power runs
out?
12:47 Sili-2233 : QUESTION: What was the price of MSL again?
12:47 AdrianusV : >500 million $
12:47 Manu75 : Thanks! ;-)
12:48 Funkopolis : But < 1 billion?
12:48 djellison : Scout is <$500m. ( Phoenix 420ish, MAVEN 4hundredandsomething
)
12:48 djellison : MSL is over a billion
12:48 djellison : quite a lot over
12:48 Funkopolis : 2?
12:48 dragonsyoung : 1.4
12:48 AdrianusV : that's one day presence of the US in Iraq
12:49 ugordan : 1.4 billion over 10 years is not bad actually
12:50 Funkopolis : For nuclear lasers on mars? Bargain
12:50 djellison : As we're short on time- I'll keep the questions to MSL topics
only
12:50 djellison : So Methane and Phoenix...hang on to those for next time.
12:51 Sili-2233 : thanks - that was very clear (re lander)
12:51 Manu75 : Cool!
12:51 Funkopolis : I guess they don't want it to blow miles down the road overnight
and get lost
12:51 Manu75 : ;-D
12:52 Manu75 : MSL phone home!
12:53 Funkopolis : QUESTION: How well would the MSL handle losing a wheel? Is
the design such that it's got some redundancy, or is it, erm, irriducibly complex?
12:53 MirCat : Funk, just have it link up to mars.google.com so it won't get
lost
12:53 Funkopolis : By then Google will probably own NASA, so yeah.
12:54 AdrianusV : Google will own Mars by that time
12:54 Funkopolis : I'm expecting them to bail out Wall Street by the end of the
week, and the US fed by the end of the year.
12:54 Jakel : GMars™
12:54 Funkopolis : Select landing site.. "I'm Feeling Lucky"
12:54 MirCat : LOL
12:55 AdrianusV : Hé Jakel, how do you get superscript?
12:55 ugordan : Use the Force, Adrianus
12:55 Funkopolis : I think it's a high-ASCII character, not superscript.
12:55 AdrianusV : ah!!
12:55 ZeroOne : Use character: ™
12:55 AdrianusV : copy paste....
12:56 ZeroOne : Copy Paste™
12:56 Jakel : adrianus ™ is a single character alt+0153
12:56 AdrianusV : OK, thanx
12:56 Funkopolis : I was just thinking of an ejector.
12:57 Funkopolis : It'd be _awesome_ on the toy.
12:57 ugordan : Lol
12:57 Funkopolis : QUESTION: When will the toy MSL be available?
12:57 ugordan : you gotta love the russians
12:57 ugordan : low tech and robust
12:57 Sili-2233 : Like pencils instead of billion-dollar pens
12:57 ugordan : That's an urban legend, but yes :)
12:57 Funkopolis : That's kind of an urban myth
12:57 Funkopolis : Well. Not really urban.
12:57 AdrianusV : and less than 500 million roebel
12:58 Funkopolis : Maybe one of the first orbital myths
12:58 Sili-2233 : Yes - but a good one nonetheless
12:58 ugordan : indeed
12:58 ZeroOne : tnx tnx tnx
12:58 Jakel : thanks emily ^_^
12:58 Sili-2233 : Thank you!
12:58 Funkopolis : Thanks once again, Emily!
12:58 MeteorWayne : Thanx
12:58 AdrianusV : thanx Emily!
12:58 Manu75 : Thanks a lot! Great as usual!
12:59 Funkopolis : And thanks, as always, to Doug the QuestionWrangler™
12:59 Jakel : get a cameraperson to stream that
12:59 Manu75 : Sigh...
12:59 rickqualls : Thank You!!!!!! ;-) bye
12:59 dragonsyoung : thanks emily
12:59 ZeroOne : 89 viewers
12:59 MirCat : Thanks for doing this again
12:59 djellison : Wranglomatic
12:59 nick601 : thank you all
12:59 Funkopolis : And remember to turn off the mic.
12:59 ugordan : ™
12:59 ridingwrobots : awesome as always
12:59 AdrianusV : by
01:00 Funkopolis : Now I want to buy a Mini Cooper with exploding-off wheels.
01:00 Funkopolis : (optional)
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